Kyle and Megan discuss… Kyle’s past trauma and healing through love, Insecurities of sharing partners, Evolution of the relationship, Megan and Marty’s rules in the beginning, Threesomes and double standards, Unblocking sexuality
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Megan: [00:00:01] Hi Kyle. This cracks me up. We’re in Kyle’s bedroom, his old bedroom in his old house. I feel like it’s a time warp, back to seeing Kyle in high school. It’s funny because I came from a house that when I was 17 or 18, my parents sold it. And then I never went back. It was like I left the house at 17 and then I never had that bedroom again. And it’s just funny to sit here with you. Yeah. How does it feel for you?
Kyle: [00:00:28] I mean, it’s comfortable. I think you called me out on yesterday. Yeah, it’s comfortable to be here. And there is a lot of memories when you still have all your stuff. Notes that you wrote to girlfriends in high school that are in your desk. You can just pull them out and go right back in time.
Megan: [00:00:48] Which you did recently.
Kyle: [00:00:51] Yeah. I did. I found two notes that were written by my two high school girlfriends and they actually, one of them mentioned the other and in that, which is kind of like during the transition period. So kind of went from one to the other. Similar to you, because I was super popular as well.
Megan: [00:01:17] We did notice a pattern. You said that you met, your pattern was to be invited by a friend.
Kyle: [00:01:22] Yeah. To form friendships with girls. And then I think that was always easy because it was never the pressure of anything else. And then getting invited to a party or kind of like an event with other people. And then I feel like I’d always fall for their friend, which is like maybe Hollywood creating the reality of me in my head. But yeah, I think it was an energy thing. The difference between a friendship and difference between the desire for someone else.
Megan: [00:01:54] That makes sense. It’s kind of what happened with us. You were invited by one of your friends to a holiday party. And that’s where I met. We walked through Zoo lights. I realize I need to set the context a little bit more. This is the day before you’re flying out today. Oh, no sorry, yeah, the day of. I am subconsciously, one more day. Can you just stay one more day? In a couple hours I’m bringing you to the airport and dropping you off and you’re gonna go to Europe. And then next week I fly to Europe with Marty and my kids. And at some point a couple of weeks from now, we’re gonna meet up in London.
Kyle: [00:02:30] August 28. Not some point. I need to know the date, the time. Otherwise, I’ll freak out.
Megan: [00:02:37] The challenge, I think of our lives right now, because there’s so many pieces of it, it’s just scheduling. And it’s funny because reading some of the polyamory books before or articles. They say scheduling is the trickiest part.
[00:02:49] The podcast talked about it. I remember being like, why are they talking about scheduling? It seems so weird. I have so many other questions. But, time is the biggest element here and how we all need from our time and what we need from each other. It’s definitely something I feel like is constantly seeking a balance. You know, as people come in and out and Marty has his visitor and then I’m with you.
Megan: [00:03:20] I need to do to Marty, because right now Marty is with the kids. Marty and his significant other is there with the kids right now. And so this is how in this lifestyle, Marty, is inextricably linked to my ability to spend time with you and vice versa. So I feel really grateful. I always think about him. I send him messages when we are together. I know you know I do this. And vice for somebody will send me messages when he’s with his significant other. Just a message of gratitude and thanks. And we’re really clear that we’re providing not only the emotional space, but also the real logistical time for each other to explore another relationship. And it’s a gift.
Megan: [00:04:02] So thank you, Marty.
Kyle: [00:04:03] Thank you, Marty. How do you feel right now with me leaving tonight?
Megan: [00:04:08] It’s always hard to see you go, because I think one of the things that we realized, I realized is that my love language, if anybody’s done that test. I really like that test. My love languages are touch and quality time together. And when we’re separate, I don’t get either of those. I think that’s why when I was younger, it was really hard to have a long distance relationship. So it’s kind of ironic that this is the way we have our relationship set up.
Kyle: [00:04:35] I actually made a rule many years ago I wouldn’t do long distance. I just remembered that, oh, fuck. I guess you’re worth it.
Megan: [00:04:45] Thank you. That’s sweet. Thanks for breaking your rule for me.I swear, every time we say never. Then it’s bound to happen. I’ll never do that. It’s like calling to the universe. Yeah.
Kyle: [00:04:56] You need to learn a lesson about that.
Megan: [00:04:59] This is another story. So, to get pregnant. Marty and I had to do three rounds of IVF and the building where I ended up having the IVF procedures was the same building where we owned a condo, you know, early in our marriage. And I would walk by that place and I would say in my head, I’m never going to need fertility stuff. I just like, oh, yeah. And I probably said that quite a few times. And of course, some behold, 10 years later, I’m sitting there at the office and doing all my stuff. And I also said, I’ll never have twins. Yeah. And then of course, I had twins. And we decided, obviously that was a conscious decision. But, yeah, never say never. Anyway, back to you leaving tomorrow. I think I do feel sad in it. It’s not a grieving. It’s just a lack feeling after after we part. But then it’s replaced with really incredible reflection and time. And that’s usually where I write more. We get a chance to experience different things in our life. I’m really excited for you going to Germany and seeing your friends, especially, they just had a baby. It’s super exciting. And that’s your other pseudo family, you know? That’s really exciting for you. And that makes me happy. And I know that we only have to go less than four weeks. So I think we figured out the last trip. It was like eight weeks, you know, eight, nine weeks, maybe two months. Right around there. That’s really our threshold. And I know it feels really uncomfortable to go longer than that.
Kyle: [00:06:32] Yeah, we haven’t done that.
Megan: [00:06:35] No, no, no. So, our history – we were together for maybe six months, maybe seeing each other once a week or so, once a week. And then towards the summer.
Kyle: [00:06:48] It seemed like a lot to me at the time. It was so intense. And mind breaking. Mind breaking. My brain was breaking slowly, explosively through those first few months.
Megan: [00:07:02] Do you want want to describe that.
Kyle: [00:07:04] Yes. I mean, I feel like my desire in having this with you, just so our podcast today is to go back and really give a frame of all of the things that we’ve gone through and the best way that we can. Because we all have our unique perspectives and all our unique experiences. And, you know, mine is coming into a marriage that was becoming open and being the first person to be attached to you in this. And being able to explore things with you. For the first time that you’d done something with someone else or fallen for someone else in a long time. But also for me, well, what do you get out of it, Kyle? And I think people probably can make judgments on that. And I think I’d love to explain more about that. And I think to explain that I have to go farther back into my past and talk a little bit about some of the things that I went through. And so when I was in high school, when I was 16, a couple of friends and I were at my house after school and we were all really screwing around. And there was a car accident that occurred really close to my house. And I witnessed my best friend Zach pass away underneath the car. And that was something that, you know, put me into shock, literal shock when I witnessed it. I remember bits and pieces of that, but I went into shock and the driver of the car was my other friend. And he was taken to the hospital. And there was this whole this that was created. And there was ambulances and police asking questions, and it was really scary, of course, and I guess one thing that that probably sums it up was when my mom came back from work and picked me up because this all happened before she was done with work.
Megan: [00:09:10] Yeah, It was during the day.
Kyle: [00:09:12] It was like the end and it was just after school before, like parents would be home from work. And we were 16.
Megan: [00:09:18] I know you’ve told the story to me before and you were very explicit about no alcohol was involved.
Kyle: [00:09:23] Correct. No alcohol and no drugs. And what happened? Was my mom got back in. You know, she basically picked me up and was like, we’ll go to the hospital because Todd was there. And Todd was the driver. So we went to the hospital. And on the way there, I remember saying this and I don’t remember where it came from. But I asked my mom, is my life over? And so for I know that that really has master in many ways and just being worried about me for many years after that. But to hear your 16 year old say that, too, I think. And I couldn’t help it. I was in shock. And that’s what came out of my mouth. And I meant it. I was that afraid and was in that place. So, you know, to say that my life was very sheltered and very protected and very safe before that day is true. And that ended my innocence. That ended my life as I knew it really quickly. And, you know, I think I struggled a lot. The rest of that year to deal with that emotionally, spiritually, physically, everything was thrown off. And I was still a 16 year old kid going to high school and seeing the same reminders of my friend who is no longer there, and then seeing my other friend who was the driver struggle with that weight. My life was blown apart from what I knew. And my girlfriend and I started struggling because I was struggling and I was cut off. And eventually we broke up at the end of that year and things were pretty rough for me. But going into my senior year, the next year, I ended up meeting Nicole, who became really my high school sweetheart and girlfriend all of senior year. We went to prom together. She came into my life at that time. And, she was really shy. She was also a virgin. She was. She hadn’t really dated a lot of guys. But she was I mean, I’m biased, but she was the most beautiful girl in the school. When she walked in a room, it lit up, which reminds me of someone. And she was one of the smartest people in the school as well in our class. She had everything. And yet she was very reserved and shy and careful. I think I over time, I learned a lot about her life, which was very hard. Her family life was a struggle. She suffered from a lot of different mental health challenges that I don’t think I quite understood at the time, to be honest. And eventually after going to college and, you know, I’m skipping over so much, but it’s really hard to do that without doing this for two hours. But then we went to college. We broke up before going to college and then she committed suicide our freshman year of college, when we came back during winter break, she’d actually already dropped out of school. There was a lot of things that happened at school that were really traumatizing to her. But, you know, three days before that happened, she’d asked to get back together with me and I said, no. Because I was still angry about something that had happened. And there’s one other nugget that I think we’ll come back to later. But, you know, that to me was really hard, really painful, and I actually was sitting right here on my bed when I found out. I remember looking out the window and it was snowing, it was the day after Christmas. And my sister always tells a story that she found out about it and she came into my room to talk to me, and I wasn’t there. She saw me, but I was not present. And yeah, I think that day something in my heart really died. But I tell this story, because I think there is a really happy ending. And there’s a lot of struggle that happened fifteen years from that day until around when I met you, Megan. And I’m really excited to talk about this story and go back and I’m writing about it. It’s because meeting you and falling in love with you has healed my heart in so many ways. It’s made me believe that love is possible, that I’m capable of it, that I’m worthy of it. And as I look at you right now. I am just so happy. I’ve never been this happy and my whole family knows it and all my friends know it. And I mean, just you are so special to me. And I’m really sad to leave you today, but I’m so happy that you’re in my life. And every minute I have with you is the biggest gift. I don’t know where it came from. But I’m thankful. And, you know, that’s my summary.
Megan: [00:14:33] I literally do not know what to say. I’m going to take a deep breath. Ok, let’s see if I can do this without tears, I can’t do it without tears.
Kyle: [00:14:46] I love you.
Megan: [00:14:46] I love you too. So thank you for sharing all that, because it’s really vulnerable. And now you can tell that story where you don’t even pause and you can tell the whole thing. It took a long time, a long time. And I didn’t know your history when we got together. And I didn’t know it was happening. All I knew is that I like spending time with you. And we would go for runs down the lake together. Marty was always happy and joking around. Good you have Kyle to go for a run with. And we would go for a run along Lake Michigan and then stop and stretch and talk. And, you know, over the course of weeks, you would just start leaking out little bits. You would tell me about a friend that you had in high school that you were thinking about and just a little, little pieces. And then you would tell me about one of your other friends that you just saw recently where you had a conversation about someone you both knew in high school who had committed suicide. And it just was like piece and piece and piece. And I didn’t know what was happening. But I think now, looking back at what I think was happening, was just having a safe space.
Kyle: [00:16:04] Yeah, I would give you a little piece and more and more. There was nothing that you couldn’t handle.
Megan: [00:16:11] I didn’t know the significance of it, too. All I knew is that I was just listening to you. And of course, I was just listening. Well, now I can say holding a loving space for you, but it really was just listening. And I knew that there was some importance there. And now I can just see my understanding of what we hold on inside and how much it’s a poison when when we keep it a secret, especially that something that creates pain or shame or blame that we use against ourself. It’s poison. It’s a wound that can’t heal because it’s infected and we’re not cleaning it out by opening it up. And the hard part is, is that sometimes when we are brave enough to unearth a wound, it can hurt at first, and I think I saw you go through that a little bit, but I didn’t know. I didn’t know it was happening. And honestly, I’m really glad I didn’t know exactly because I think if I had brought my intention in, like, OK, I’m going to quote unquote, save Kyle. If that wasn’t my intention at all, it was just to be with you. And it’s why I know I sit here and so do you. It’s so cheesy that love cures all. But it really does.
Kyle: [00:17:21] I believe that, I’m a living proof at this point.
Megan: [00:17:26] I think that I’m so grateful for all this love in my life. For your love. For Marty’s love. My kids love for all the family that is here to support us and creates a loving space for my kids too. Because I think that if those traumas personally, I can’t understand going through it. I didn’t have anything like that in my childhood, but I just think. Obviously, your family did everything that they could have done for you that they knew how to do for you. And you did everything that you knew how to do for yourself. But there’s just in society we don’t talk about a lot of stuff. So it’s not maybe, it doesn’t feel safe for a lot of people to bring up stuff.
Kyle: [00:18:09] They still love me and gave me love. And I accepted their love and I love them. But to be able to fall in love again was the mountain that I wasn’t even thinking about.
Megan: [00:18:25] Was that even in your consciousness? Oh, am I not able to fall in love because of this trauma that happened in my past?
Kyle: [00:18:31] Not really. I mean, when time passes, you think that everything is fine and you’re like, oh, I’m you know, it’s been 10 or 15 years. This can’t be still bothering me in this case. It can’t be still affecting my relationships. But I think the one nugget that I want to come back to was I will always remember this sitting on the couch in my apartment room with the lights were dim, just the little lights in the front of the kitchen. And we’re talking almost in the dark. And somehow, I mean, there are all these things that I knew that I went through. But there was one thing that I didn’t know that I was holding onto, and that was like just that little piece of truth, which was the last text that I sent her was not a nice one. It was a mean one. And I remember now. As soon as I found out that was a first thought that I had was like, oh, my God, that could have been my fault. And then immediately just burying that, all of that, the whole story. And I never told anyone I never told therapists, friends, family I didn’t tell anyone. That little piece, which was something that I think I held on to and blamed myself and felt guilty about. And that was I don’t know in some way that blocked me from a lot of things, even trusting myself to be a good partner and boyfriend and all of that. I think at this point I’m done analysing what I’m curing. But I feel it. And that little piece of truth to me when I was able to just find it and then tell you about it and then watch you listen to me and say that you still love me. And I didn’t like I didn’t have you storm off me like you’re an asshole. You’re a terrible person. I mean, that’s really what I felt. You know, I felt like that. And then you reflected back to me, you know, that you still love me and you know the person that I am. I was able to, like, let that go, because it was a long time coming that I was ready to let it go. But I just needed that that time and that place in that space to say it. And you were you that, you’ve been that for me. And you continue to be that and all the things that I’m working on now and myself and insecurities and fears. And you’re just like this incredible learning partner. Yeah. This doesn’t make sense to most people. But I want it to. I want people to understand really what this means to me, because this is big. This has healed something that could have affected me my whole life. And I’m 34 now. I feel like I’ve a lot of time ahead. A lot of love in my life right now and a lot in the future and a lot of things that I want to do. And I’m just starting to have visions for the future in my life where I can have, you know, loving partners, multiple. And and that’s OK. And it can be respectful and not toxically masculine and abused. They can be respectful. And I can be supporting women in their growth, which has actually been a really cool part of this is to watch you grow, to watch you explore your sexuality and watch you explore other men and to let go of that let go of that whole paradigm that I have to. Yeah, and I have to hold on to that and that fear that that one day I may get replaced out of nowhere, but this structure is not about replacement, it’s not about this or that. And I think I feel really safe in this structure, which works for me. And it also works to heal the past traumas which affect me in ways I’ll never understand. And I don’t need to.
Megan: [00:22:31] Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I see you work through so much just insecurity. I listen to the last podcast that we recorded. It was you, me and Marty and his other significant other who didn’t talk in Michigan. And there was a moment where I realized when I was listening to it again. But I didn’t get a chance to honor you for your work. You working through this most recent insecurity of an introduction of another guy in the picture and, you know, giving me space to explore what does that look like? And it’s really your first experience of sharing me because Marty was already in the picture. You didn’t have to go through that process.
Kyle: [00:23:14] It was different. Yeah. You know, it was different, I think, when when everything started with Marty, I mean, I was definitely protecting myself because I’m like, oh, well, I live in this paradigm. All I think about is I either have a girlfriend or I don’t. And this is not in either of those categories. I didn’t know what to do about that. So I was just careful when we started. And I knew that, you know, what you and Marty had was really deep and long. And then it came with a lot of things. But yeah, like children. And that wouldn’t be our journey. And I think to really appreciate what our journey is now and know that there’s so many things that could come that we don’t even know. And now planning forward and thinking about traveling in Europe together and in Australia and New Zealand together and doing like a really special part of your life and saying this is something that’s I know it’s real. I know what it is. And you don’t have to have a contract or her like I like we choose each other. And to me, that’s way more more powerful than anything. And that means that means a lot more to me than anything I’ve seen.
Megan: [00:24:35] That’s why I want to share so much. That’s why I’m finally understanding what partnership is and what love is through our relationship. And there has been a lot of healing for me, too. I just I can’t remember if I talked about it on the other podcasts. Maybe the first one about being a really clear way for me to see what wasn’t working in my relationship with Marty. And so with a long term relationship like that and with as much as Marty and I went through, there was a lot of trauma there too. Actually, we had closed businesses. There was a moment where Marty can share more of his story and in this realm, but where he was really, really depressed. And I couldn’t get him out of that. He thankfully got himself out of it and sought help and grew through it. And it’s amazing. And there’s just so much that we went through that really did cause some trauma. And so what happened for me in that relationship was I built up resent. So for all the unsaid things that were in me that I didn’t acknowledge to myself because I was queen of denial. Truly, I would just deny everything to myself. I wouldn’t admit it because if I could deny it to myself that I didn’t have to actually face it. And so there were pieces that I was denying. And then I, of course, didn’t communicate those with Marty. And then they would come out as resent or blame or judgment against him. But really, for all things that were connected to me and what I wasn’t clear on and what I wasn’t communicating. And when you and I started to fall in love and we call it the bubble, we’re like, oh, it’s just our bubble. It’s Kyle and Meghan’s bubble, because it was so pure. We didn’t have to handle anything. No kids, no finances, no real heavy subjects and education. Yeah. And like pure, pure love bubble. But it was such a stark contrast when I go back with Marty and realize, wow, I’m not giving Marty the same respect. Why not? You know, I’m not. And then I had to go in and really see where I had resent and clean it up. And to own it first, to understand where I was coming from, to apologize to him, to ask for forgiveness and to be able to move forward. So there was a lot of for me unearthing of stuff.
Kyle: [00:26:59] And I think that’s really been something that number one, I commend both you and Marty for all of the work that you’ve done on your own partnership, you two. Because I’ve seen the growth and I’ve also seen opportunities where I can help because I can see and I know both of you so well and I can hear things that you’re saying that you’re you’re ready to say to the other, but you haven’t yet. Or. Yeah. Or it’s like, you know, wrestling around in your head, specifically you. And obviously we talk more. But I think now I’ve been able to build such a close relationship with Marty that I can see deeply into both of you and your relationship. And it’s crazy. But I really want everything for you guys. I want you guys to be healthy and happy at all times. And I don’t feel right to be with you if you and Marty are in a breakdown or in a fight. And I think even stuff like that that we’ve started to be more conscious of. And I really don’t feel like I’m losing or missing out or like it’s affecting me. This is. Bigger than all of us. We’re all connected. And you can’t sacrifice those things, you can’t sacrifice a piece of this and expect me and you to continue to work.
Megan: [00:28:25] It doesn’t work or it’s like a faulty foundation. Thank you. I always forget how far we’ve come and everything we’ve gone through. And now, since we released the first podcast, people have a lot of questions. And I realize that we almost went zero to 60 with just sharing where we’re at now. And I think it would be really helpful to share how we got here.
Megan: [00:00:00] When Marty and I started, what did we call it… Stop and repair clause, we created something called stop and repair. And that was if our relationship so mine and Marty’s if our relationship wasn’t solid, that we could say stop, hey, stop any outside other relationships, we need to repair this first.
Kyle: [00:00:20] Did you have a set of rules like stop and repair?
Megan: [00:00:23] That was a really big one. Yeah. We had stop and repair. We had to use it once with you. Where Kyle and I went a whole weekend not talking because there was a big break down and definitely a breach of support, a lack of seeing where Marty was at. And yeah, I was. It was definitely on me, but I didn’t see where how triggered he was about something.
Kyle: [00:00:50] That taught me a lot too. Yeah. we were learning each other and at that time. That was a year ago. We were still learning each other and I always wanted to be close to Marty. More out of fear. Yeah. It was more out of the uncomfortable sense. Yeah. Where I had this sense that I didn’t want to not know him and have this with you because it would be uncomfortable not knowing what he’s thinking. And I think that was how it all started for me. And then to be able to now say, Marty and I are best friends. And when I have a breakdown, even with you on something, I can go to him. That’s just an incredible thing. And now I start to feel like there’s space where I can be a Marty to someone else potentially. And there’s a lot of lessons there and there’s a lot of beauty in supporting other really good men in the world. You know, is learning like I am. And I think, I’ll make one statement. Like most men, we don’t really support each other in that way. We are more competitive with each other, especially if we’re dating the same person that would normally be a problem. So this is different. And this is really, really great because the relationship Marty and I have is really secure and strong.
Megan: [00:02:16] It’s amazing.
Kyle: [00:02:17] And yeah, and full of love
Megan: [00:02:18] When I see you two support each other and I’ll explain this moment and Lollapalooza on Friday. It was I just sent out the post. I was on cloud nine we’re hanging out and talking. And you mentioned something about Kira and it’s something that you noticed about her. And it was it was like a parenting moment where you noticed, hey, maybe if you guys try this, you know, she might feel more comfortable. And I gave you a big hug. I’m like, oh, my God, this is again, another benefit, having another emotionally intelligence loving adult in the lives of my kids. And so I shared it with Marty, the recommendation that you made for us. And he got up and he’s like, give me a hug, man. And then tells you just spontaneously, thank you for contributing to the lives of our children. It’s beautiful and amazing. And I’m sure I cried in that moment.
Kyle: [00:03:08] And that just means more to me than like most of the things I’ve experienced in my life. Because, yeah, it’s it’s incredible to have this time with you and be part of your family. And I remember back when you had this vision of me being, you know, hanging out with your kids. And that was all really scary for some reason and now it’s like it’s so meaningful. And as they grew up, we’ll be you know, we’ll be a big part of sharing, like showing them something that they may not have experienced or known, you know, without us leading this and then creating this in our own life.
Megan: [00:03:45] I think they’ll get a more loving household and really, really, really clear on that, you know, how they say it takes a village. I think it takes a tribe and we’re creating that tribe. And it makes me so happy to know that they’ve got other adults that are looking out for them and can see things that we can’t see. You know, just adding another perspective. It’s really beautiful. Oh, I was going to say back to rules when Marty and I were talking about things, we did actually have a ton of rules. When you and I were starting to spend time just by ourselves, there were rules for interaction. And I think what that did for Marty and I is, I don’t know if we were copying a template or something where we saw it create these rules for physical interaction with your partner. Ultimately, what it did was create a safe container to say today you can kiss him. And then that was how we spent a couple of weeks just being able to kiss. OK, and then today you can take off a shirt or, you know, it’s was working really slowly and it took us months to to build up to where we are now. Beyond that. But I think those rules for Marty and I were really it was a safe container. And I did the same thing for him. Well he went first because he wasn’t seeing anyone when you and I were starting to see each other. So we kind of like did this process first. And then when Marty started to date, someone seriously, I wanted to give kind of like given return what I had received from him. But I forgot that it had taken us four months or five months to get to where where I thought I could be. So basically, I think for his I don’t know if it was a second girlfriend, I wanted to be able to say like, oh, yeah, go ahead and just have sex with her. And but I wasn’t there yet. I was like, emotionally, that would have just crushed me. But I wanted to be there. So there was a very big gap between what I could handle really safely without breaking too much my heart and what I wanted to handle to show of gratitude and respect of how much Marty had already given me. But Marty, being a very smart man, he is. He’s like, Megan, thank you. I know where this is coming from. And I know you want to be here, but you’re not there yet. And so he was able to take it slower and kind of create more steps in between. So that I didn’t break like a rubber band, which I’m always like how does that guy know? I want to be somewhere else, and he I got. I see you. I know you. I love you. And it’s OK.
Kyle: [00:06:18] I’m working on that wisdom. Yeah. I see when he can detect it. What was that face that she made that gave that one away? So I’m working on that.
Megan: [00:06:28] And I’m trying to be more honest with myself to rather than be where I want to be is just be where I am. Accept how I feel and be able to state that first to myself and not be in denial and then share it.
Kyle: [00:06:41] So in sharing Marty. What were some of the harder times that you remember? What did you feel?
Megan: [00:06:47] The harder parts were when I couldn’t witness it. I think I wanted to witness him kissing another woman. And I didn’t until his third. Oh, no. Well. There are a couple caveats in there. We had one experience where I witnessed him kiss another woman. But it wasn’t a serious relationship. Of the two serious relationships that he had before this third one now. I didn’t get to witness and kiss another woman. And I think now I know that that’s really important for me, that I like seeing him. I like feeling a part of it. I like feeling like it’s not hidden. And I especially like the confidence of the other woman to allow me to be there and to be a part of it. It’s not to say I’m always a part of their physical connection, but I like it. It doesn’t doesn’t feel wrong. But it’s just like all this is open and fine and I get to be comfortable and she gets to be comfortable and it’s beautiful. So the hard part was really when he would go do thing. You know, it was separate. Yeah. When it was separate.
Kyle: [00:07:52] And I feel like I’m starting to appreciate that entire part, which to me was there seemed to be a lot of trauma in thinking about someone I love with someone else and a lot of fear and certainly insecurity around that experience. But I think I’m now going through this process of. And we had initially. And with me, you and Marty in those experiences, but also I think now doing it again. You know, going against the fear of seeing you with another man and seeing you explore and seeing happy and seeing the energy. And even the one of the things that really bubbled up fast when people know from the other night when we had our small group together and I had your new interest over to my place, one of the things that I immediately was confronted with was, you know, oh, you have such great energy together. Oh, it’s so much better than mine. And that whole that whole like fear just bubbled right up. And yeah, I think just all of that entire experience was something that I needed to feel. Because I mean those are old ways of thinking for me. And they certainly don’t work in this environment. But I think they had to come up and they had to feel a bit and after that, we spent a week together and I’m with your kids and I’m spent like every minute with you. And I have so much. So I was struggling to rationalize why I would be upset if you have good energy with another another man.
Megan: [00:09:49] But I think it’s fair. I think it would be a lie to tell people that you didn’t feel like that or that you don’t feel like that, that’s part of this process. I think and we were on a run earlier this morning when you’re talking about being able to feel our feelings. If we’re sad, just be sad. Just feel it because what we resist feeling, we actually with our resistance, we keep it in place. So I think what I’m learning and how I’m learning to be and allow is what Marty had to do for me, too, as was just…
Kyle: [00:10:20] Both you and I can be stoic.
Megan: [00:10:21] Yeah, exactly. We’re like shut off the feelings you. I will not feel that. But I think there’s so much power and beauty and just feeling those feelings and processing them, because I think emotions are healthy. And I think anything that we are allowing herself to actually experience ultimately by withholding it, it becomes very unhealthy. We were talking about depression and I know you’ve gone through bouts of it. I know Marty has. And I’ve had a blips here and there. But I think what happens is that when we don’t allow ourselves to go through those feelings, they don’t pass as fast. And I think depression or feeling sad is actually a really, really healthy emotion because it says, hey, like red flag. Hey, hey, hey, there’s something here. There’s something here to work on to get through, to acknowledge, to share to whatever it is, not hold on to it by yourself.
Kyle: [00:11:11] Somebody needs to change.
Megan: [00:11:12] Yeah, something needs to change. Yeah.
Kyle: [00:11:15] And I think the last thing on the topic of sharing and the fear around that I think all the things that were in my head around that experience of seeing you with someone else. We’re all so dark and so scary. And then when I saw it to experience, you know, kiss someone else in front of me. It was to see you happy, to see him happy, to see that energy. I mean, it’s like you’re watching two people be happy. What? It’s not scary. It doesn’t matter what the situation is that you can’t help but appreciate it.
Megan: [00:11:56] I love that you bring that up. Thank you. It’s beautiful. I think part of me. I’m sitting here self judgment. I’m like, is that my sexual kink? Like, do I guess I get off by seeing Marty kiss someone else in front of me? But honestly it’s beautiful and it’s it’s what I want for you.
Kyle: [00:12:13] And I thought you guys were into that.
Megan: [00:12:14] I think it’s just beautiful.
Kyle: [00:12:18] Yeah, and I agree with that now.
Megan: [00:12:19] Thank you. Yeah, I thought it was a sexual. Can’t get it and it might still be and I might have some something there as well. So it’s boring, but I think it really is beautiful and you can enjoy someone that you love enjoying a very sensual sexual experience and be able to see that from afar. Because when we’re having sex, we can’t see each other, you know, like we can’t see that. But when you can watch someone go through something beautiful like that, it’s a really incredible outside experience. And to see it to be a part of it. It’s, I think, really beautiful. If it’s all healthy, consensually and all of that.
Kyle: [00:12:54] I think the other fear is being left out. And I think that’s kind of where we’ll probably have our podcast on that one. But you know how you’ve been able to manage two guys at one time. I mean, that’s probably a skill set that you acquired at some point in your Barcelona days.
Megan: [00:13:16] No, never, never. Because the first time. Yes. Because the first time was with you.
Kyle: [00:13:23] But, you don’t make me feel left out. You don’t make Marty feel left out. And I think that’s important. And that’s a fear probably people would have is if I’m in this threesome. And it’s my significant other. And then they forget about me. And that’s something that was in my head.
Megan: [00:13:42] Yeah. It’s just a fear that people have. Oh, we’re going to whole episode on sex. I think. I can’t tell. I can tell because it makes me nervous to share this publicly. I definitely have judgment for myself. I have a judgment for how I think people are going to judge me. But OK, so let’s stick with that and acknowledge it and not be in denial about it. But it’s really been beautiful. Can we just acknowledge that there are a lot of females out there that have, you know, the vision or a desire to want to have a threesome just like men do. Females or women just don’t talk about it. I would never talk about it before.
Kyle: [00:14:21] Let me also say that it’s really sexy to watch you explore that. I mean, your face when you’re in those moments is like pure ecstasy, pure happiness. And that to me is is well worth it. But to even appreciate that women can explore that and have that freedom and have that openness. I can’t say this. But so many women, I feel the desire that I get, so many women asking me questions more than men because I feel like they are emotionally interested in the topic. Whether they’re going to jump into it is a different thing that they’re interested in the topic, because I think it’s something that they haven’t been able to explore and there’s not a safe space for it and they can’t start the conversation with their husband or their boyfriend out of fear. And I think as men, we need to create a better space for that.
Megan: [00:15:21] Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for saying that, because I’m sitting here going, how? But really, how did I get here? And it wasn’t me. I didn’t start this conversation. I seriously owe it all to Marty. Marty did so much internal work on jealousy and on his own sexuality and what he’s comfortable with even before anything happened. But he opened up the conversation for us. Like he literally, not only opened up the conversation, but was actually physically present in a way and facilitated. He is like you guys are so nervous. Can you just kiss?
Kyle: [00:15:56] We have to have a podcast where we talk about that. And Marty is here because it is probably hilarious for him or both. Yeah. Yeah. Why are we terrified? He is the one having a great time with this.
Megan: [00:16:09] Marty, we’ll wait for you and talk about that later. I think that where I have to admit, where I wish I could help my lady friends more is that I don’t know how to open. I don’t know how to support them in opening up this conversation with their significant other or with their partner or husband. I don’t. Especially if the partner is a male. I have no idea how to do that. All I know is that Marty was the one that opened it. He was the one that was brave enough to step into it. And I know he told the story earlier where he just saw that I was shut off and he was like, oh, my wife is just not going to shut off. And it’s whatever it’s going to take. So I just hope ladies out there have men, partners in their life that are as willing and as courageous. I think we have a huge double standard. It’s OK for men to say I want a threesome with two women. Like that’s known. But then for a man to consider, to even consider the idea of allowing and creating that same experience for his wife or partner or girlfriend. Yeah. It’s not even in the realm of possibility. Hey double standards.
Kyle: [00:17:11] There is a lot of things wrapped up in that. Right. And I think I’ve come through that entire experience of. You know, having the fears of, oh, I might be bisexual now or might be perceived as bisexual or all of those fears that I think. Unfortunately, men deal with more than more than women and there’s a lot more labels on men. And it’s just really the example two women can kiss and they’re not really there’s not a label that’s put on it. Two guys do it is automatically label that as it is, but. Yeah. All I’m saying is that the fear I experienced the fear of, oh no, I’m bisexual. And people even said, oh, so now you’re you’re bisexual because you’re doing that, you’re having threesomes. And I think I wasn’t able to even appreciate that this is about you. And this is about like even giving that to you is a fun experience for me. And that makes me think a better partner to be able to open that space. And it helps me grow. And I’m getting past those insecurities and well past them now. But that was just appreciating when it comes from. It was a mental block. And I even think my root chakra was blocked. I’m way more more physically capable.
Megan: [00:18:36] Let’s just say you’re not in your head about it.
Kyle: [00:18:38] Not at all.
Megan: [00:18:39] No. I think you were totally in your head about it because of self care. And all that does is like blocking from the actual experience.
Kyle: [00:18:44] And I mean, sexually, I was in my head way more and I’m sure most guys are. But I was just in my head all the time. Always worrying. Always insecure. I think guys are the most insecure. It’s easy to call women out because they’re I think they’re more emotional and it’s more transparently seen. But guys are more insecure because we don’t deal with it and it becomes worse, not better. And I think I just want to share my experience because I feel like I’m working on those things and I’m growing. And I want that for other guys. And I think any guy can do it. You know, and it’s it’s really not. I’m not smarter or more capable than any other guy in that realm. I think I just had the courage to to try it. And I want that for other people because I know the benefit will be for everyone, for men and women.
Megan: [00:19:40] It’s just comfort, comfort with our sexuality, which again, is one of those areas where we don’t get to have a lot of support. Even to talk to through. You’re so comfortable now almost wonder if you left in the mind of any listeners. Wow, has he kissed another guy? And you haven’t. But you’re so comfortable that you don’t even need to make that caveat like that’s really incredible.
[00:19:59] I mean, I think through this experience, I started to realize that the only thing that’s stopping me from exploring another guy is like that fear. That fear of what would I be labeled as. And I think my opinion is if I explore something with another guy. It wouldn’t change anything. Of course it doesn’t. It doesn’t matter. I mean, I haven’t had any real attraction to another guy. And I think that’s kind of been like, OK, well, that’s. I will let attraction always be my guide or my interest level. But I think that’s what I started to realize is that we’re all capable of exploring anything with anyone and doesn’t mean that we’re gay, straight, bisexual or whatever, but that realization was kind of freeing and being like, well, yeah, I am blocking this and most people are blocking this possibility. And what if I don’t block this possibility? Will something come? And I don’t know why. I really don’t know. I’m happy to share that.
Megan: [00:21:04] I love it. It’s super sexy. Love it. I love it. Love it. Oh, that’s making it. So you’re brave. And feel like it gives me courage to share my experience, which I feel like we’ll probably have to. I’ll have a chance to explain it a little bit more that I have in this experience have stepped up my exploration of another woman. And I feel like it’s baby steps. But for me, I’m also unblocking myself to go. Okay. Well, why? Why wouldn’t I? And so if, of course, another woman or intimate experience sexually with Marty’s other significant other, he finally got the threesome that he was waiting for. And I think it was even more than he could have anticipated. It was just such a loving environment that felt really natural.
Kyle: [00:21:52] A little different than all the porn. What a threesome can be.
Megan: [00:21:57] Exactly. That’s a whole other story. Can we attach love and intimacy with our sexual experience? Because I think the piece that’s missing or that bridge. But even for me to feel comfortable enough to explore that and to not make judgments on myself and just experience what it is. Yeah, I’ve unblocked myself. And curious. Yeah.
Kyle: [00:22:22] Thanks for sharing that.
Megan: [00:22:23] Teasers for the next. Oh, thank you. End on the top, teasers for next episode. I don’t know.
Kyle: [00:22:29] We’re building in the sex episode.
Megan: [00:22:33] Sex conversation. Or conversations. Well, this has been a really incredible conversation. I never know where it’s going to go with you.
Kyle: [00:22:41] Oh, yeah, I know. I was ready.
Megan: [00:22:44] It’s like, oh, God. Kyle, sharing is your history, your experiences. And I felt like that’s taken you a long time to even do in person. And now that you’re willing to share it at this level.
Kyle: [00:22:56] Just it’s part of the healing process. And I really believe that. If I have a life purpose, I feel like I want to reduce suffering for other people, I have to reduce it for myself first. And I want to put good energy in the world. I’m trying different things. This is one of my things I’m trying. And truly, If I can connect to people and make a difference. I know your face was lit up when you were getting feedback on Facebook.
Megan: [00:23:26] Oh, my God. So the response so far has been …. No, I don’t think I have. So, yeah, it hasn’t even been a week. It’s been a couple of days since we posted or since I posted something on Facebook and and got such a huge response back. And I feel so grateful. So first, I feel so light, even if nobody made any comments, the fact that I shared that about you and your kids. Oh, yeah, sorry. My post that I post on Facebook was coming out post and it was a beautiful picture of Kyle and I. And it just shared how much I love you and how much you mean to me. And then shared that I love my husband as well. And I love and we have a even a better relationship now. And just how I’m polyamorous identify and I allow for this love in my life. And I did that for me. I knew that I was hiding something. I knew I needed to share this truth because there was a bigger and bigger divide of who I was becoming and what people knew about me.
Kyle: [00:24:28] And you are probably the most polyamorous of the tribe here at this point.
Megan: [00:24:33] Yes. Yes, definitely. We’re working on Kyle’s polyamorous experience.
Kyle: [00:24:37] Right. Which I do have that desire. I’ll be touching on that stuff later.
Megan: [00:24:42] Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So sharing that and then getting the feedback and then having people share their own personal, intimate experiences and what they’re going through now. I just feel I feel so honored. I feel so honored. And somebody. It’s not just everything, you know, having multiple partners. I mean, one one partner. Yeah. Or that being just anything. Anything people are keeping secret. Yeah. Yeah. Now sharing stories. So many of the messages that I received just made me cry. They really did. It was like, how is this possible? And so now I feel honored and I feel I can be even more courageous engine in my sharing and then hopefully I can support other people in their process. So that’s all I can be, a loving witness.
Kyle: [00:25:36] I’m so excited for you. And this next part of our journey.
Megan: [00:25:40] Thank you. You, too.
Kyle: [00:25:42] This is the end of the Chicago chapter. And I think it was way more than we thought it could have been.
Megan: [00:25:48] Totally. When we were leaving Brazil, I hadn’t come out. There was a lot that I felt like was being created in me, but it hadn’t come out yet. And my work identity and career has been a big focus, too, because that’s it’s really something that’s important to me. And I want to have meaning. And when we were in Brazil, it was great. But I was lacking a purpose part. And so coming here to Chicago, I was like, you know, maybe I’ll meet someone that I can work for or maybe I’ll figure out what I want to do as a job. But I was wrestling with this inner conflict. I don’t want a job. I just don’t want something separate from my life. I want to be able to just learn and share and learn and share and get paid for that. So that’s where I’m at in this process in the last couple of weeks here in Chicago. I realized I’ve been waiting for someone outside to save me, but it’s really me that has to step up.
Kyle: [00:26:37] And you’ve been trained for this. And you’re preparing. You have public speaking ability, you have workshop ability. You have coaching.
Megan: [00:26:46] I’ve been coaching our people.
Kyle: [00:26:49] You know the medium.
Megan: [00:26:51] Thank you. It’s just been the wrong message. I didn’t know I had the mediums down I go. I can hold conferences and do workshops and speak in front of hundreds of thousands of people. No problem. But I just it wasn’t the right message. And I knew that in my heart. And that’s why when I was doing leadership workshops last summer, I was going around and doing them for really big companies. And it didn’t it was like I almost felt like achy, like it didn’t. I was like, oh, why am I doing this? I can be in front of people, but I feel I’m not sharing at the level that I could share. I’m not actually contributing at the level I can contribute to these people. And now I feel like a step on the path. Who knows where it’s going to go. But it feels so good. I feel so good.
Kyle: [00:27:30] I feel like that’s the fun part of our relationship is that I get to be a partner. But I’m also just a fan of yours. I love watching you go through this. And you’re really inspiring. And our friend David said it really well. I mean, you’re beautiful and you’re attractive. You have this attractive quality that just emanates love and beauty and everyone sees it. It’ll bring a lot of good things your way. I love seeing you in your element. And I support all of it.
Megan: [00:28:03] Thank you all. Thank you, I’m so fucking lucky. And ditto. I feel like you are attracting amazing people, amazing opportunities, and you just keep being vulnerable with people. And the more vulnerable you are with people, the more that comes back to you.
Kyle: [00:28:17] And the story I told earlier, I told in a business meeting, in the second meeting. I was like, oh, shit. What did I just do? And everyone’s like, oh, wow. And then they start talking. It unleashes the walls.
Megan: [00:28:32] Yeah. You make people feel safe. You really do, you give me a safe place and you give a lot of people safe places. And this healing project that you’re on, the healing journey. I feel like it has been yours, but I feel like now it’s going to be more than yours. Yeah. It’s good. My learning partner.
Megan: [00:28:57] Bye guys.
Kyle: [00:28:57] Bye for now.
Megan: [00:29:01] Wait, wait. Let me do it. I’m practicing. I don’t know how to do this yet.
Kyle: [00:29:05] That’s all you. Maybe I’ll get some inspiration.
Megan: [00:29:08] So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. If you made it this far through the episode. Thanks for listening. Share. If you learn something out of this and you want to share it with friends, they think if you think they can get something out of it, share it. Subscribe. We’ll be posting. I don’t know how often, but as often as we can and ask questions. My email address is in the show notes. Just send me a question if you want to hear a certain topic. We’ve got so many in mind, so much we want to share, but we’d love for it to be listener led because we got a lot to share and we sometimes don’t know where to start. So thank you all. With all of my love and heart. Thank you. Thank you. Go out and love.